The marketplace for college athletes to engage in Name/Image/Likeness (NIL) deals was created in 2021 after the NCAA v. Alston case and now it seems like every college is ready to start spreading the wealth. There are already more than 100 “collectives” either in operation or being formed. They allow alumni/fans/whoever to donate money to assist a specific school in creating opportunities for student-athletes to make some money off of their celebrity. We have reached out to many collectives and will try to interview representatives from as many of them as possible to see how each of them operates. HoopsHD’s Jon Teitel continues our coverage with Frank Ambrose of the Saints March On NIL collective, who discussed what his group is about and what it has accomplished so far.
You are the co-founder of an NIL collective called “Saints March On” that was formed last January: how complicated was it to create (if at all), and why did you do it? The bones of it were simple to put together. The harder part was establishing a donor base and reaching out to businesses. There was a lot of confusion at 1st so we just tried to get out there and tell our story to our athletes. My wife and I are very passionate about our schools/sports and are semi-retired: I felt that NIL could help differentiate Siena as a mid-major. We have a huge season ticket holder base and passionate fans who will help us carry the program further.
Your LLC operates as a “not-for-profit”: why did you decide to set it up that way? We got advice that this would be more beneficial than doing a 501c3. It is basically a shell company but we stated that we do not take any money out of it. It also meant that we could do more than just public service: we want to create a marketing company for the players and allow them to interact directly with businesses. It gives us a broader opportunity to move from a donor-based organization to a sustainable business collective.
You majored in finance at Siena a few decades ago: how has the athletic program changed from then until now? When I was there we had recently moved up to D-1 so we were just getting our feet under us. The biggest change happened with our success in the late-1980s. We upset Stanford in the 1989 NCAA tourney and have brought in some players who made us something special. People looked at us and showed that you could get to the big-time: Jalen Pickett started with us, then burst onto the scene at Penn State, and just got drafted by the defending NBA champs. It is now a stepping-stone for players who want to go pro, which was not the case when I was there.
Your background is in technology/investing: how helpful is your skill set to the functioning of the collective? My time in the start-up world was the most relevant because that is basically what NIL is: you build your product/messaging/marketing. I also have the network to find other people who can help us out pro bono, which is important because we direct 90% of our money to the athletes.
Your focus is on basketball: how/why would you decide to open it up to other sports? We just got a lacrosse-specific donation so now those men’s/women’s teams are a part of it…but basketball is the sport that we think can advance all of our athletic teams. We did a deal with a company called myNILpay that allows people to donate directly to any athlete in exchange for an NFT token. This is an example which shows that if an athlete wants to build their brand then we can provide them with the tools to do it, but at the very least we want to educate the athletes/coaches: it is a big part of what we have been doing.
While your group is not affiliated with Siena you stated that you “work closely” with the college on NIL compliance/disclosure elements: is it easy to balance the independence with the alignment? It is because of the relationship we have built with the athletic department. We use them as a resource for questions/compliance and it would be difficult if we did not have that access. Rules change all the time and you can get sideways pretty fast even if you are not doing anything intentional.
What kind of deals have you been able to work out so far? We have deals with all of our basketball players through the collective: they sign with us in exchange for work like signing autographs/making appearances/doing certain things on social media. If a business wants to arrange a commercial with a player then we can also facilitate that. It gives us a lot of flexibility: we can source charity appearance work without having to structure every single opportunity.
People are obviously free to do whatever they want with their hard-earned money…but do you ever have any second thoughts about whether you should be encouraging your donors to do something else like fight cancer/reduce homelessness? I have a passion for what has transpired with student-athletes over time: it was very unfair for schools to use the product that these young men/women produced without giving them a financial benefit. Now we teach kids how to take these lessons into the business world after they graduate. The NCAA and institutions they support have gotten disproportionately wealthy on the entertainment product of these student-athletes and now it is time for the athletes to more directly benefit from their hard work and talent. Not everyone will go pro but they can all earn some income during college.
Do you think the NIL model will be as effective at a MAAC school, and what is the biggest difference between your collective and those at high-major schools (if any)? I think the NIL model can be successful at the mid-major level: the biggest difference is simply dollars. A lot of what you see in the press are the “1% athletes” who get the 6-7 figure deals. We are solidly in the space for a D-1 mid-major and we let our coaches know what is available to them budget-wise and then let them decide what they want to do. NIL is at the very end of the recruiting/retention chain: student-athletes want to be in a good place, get playing time, etc. If the 1st thing on their mind is an NIL deal then they are probably not right for our program.
Earlier this year we saw a basketball team’s season suspended (New Mexico State) and a football team’s coach fired (Northwestern) due to hazing: how concerned are you about entering contractual relationships with teenagers who might end up behaving badly? Maybe I am biased but I have an enormous amount of faith in our coaching staff and the kind of young adults that they recruit. We have kids who are mature beyond their age and my wife and I could not be more impressed with the ones that we have met. Anyone can trip up and make a mistake but they have been very good about understanding the morality clause in their contact. We do not have any concerns based on the infrastructure at the school.
