Happy Birthday!: HoopsHD interviews Dave Logan about Chauncey Billups

There are few players not yet in the Hall of Fame with a better resume than Chauncey Billups. In high school he was a Parade All-American in both 1994/1995. In college at Colorado he was a 2nd-team All-American and led the Buffaloes to their 1st NCAA tourney appearance in almost 3 decades. After being drafted 3rd overall in 1997 he was named NBA Finals MVP in 2004 and made 5 straight All-Star appearances from 2006–2010. Now we get to see what kind of a coach he is after Portland hired him to run the show last June. HoopsHD’s Jon Teitel got to chat with Dave Logan, who played both basketball/football at Colorado, about Chauncey beating Indiana in the 1997 NCAA tourney and being a great shooter. Today is Chauncey’s 45th birthday so let us be the 1st to wish him a happy 1!

After being a 4-time All-State 1st-team pick at George Washington High School and starting on the varsity as a freshman, Chauncey was selected to the 1995 McDonald’s All-American Game: how dominant a player was he in high school, and how frustrating was it for him to miss the All-American Game due to a shoulder injury? I was just getting into my broadcasting career back then so I saw many of his high school games. He could dominate in multiple ways and was a fairly physical defender so it was obvious that he had a great skill set. I was hoping that he would stay in-state even though he could have gone anywhere.

In the 1997 NCAA tourney he scored 24 PTS in a win over Indiana: how big a deal was it for the Buffaloes to win their 1st NCAA tourney game in more than 25 years? It was a big deal for everyone in the state. I played both football/basketball at CU and knew how tough it was for us to have continued success. I remember watching that game against the storied tradition of the Hoosiers and a great coach in Bobby Knight. It was special to see 1 of our own on a national stage lighting it up!

In the 1st round of the 2003 playoffs his Detroit Pistons became just the 7th team in NBA history to rally from a 3-1 playoff deficit as they beat Orlando: how were they able to win the final 3 games? Back in the day the team played so selflessly and I attribute a lot of that to Chauncey. Coach Larry Brown deserves a lot of credit for recognizing his skill set: most of Chauncey’s previous teams tried to pigeonhole him into a 1 or 2, but Larry allowed him to be a combo guard. That team was a lot of fun to watch.

Take me through the magical 2004 Finals against the Lakers:
On the team bus heading to the airport after an 8-PT OT loss in Game 2 he told everyone, “We’re not coming back to LA”: why did he say it, and what was the reaction of the team? I was a huge Laker guy growing up and liked their style of play. It does not surprise me because he is a born leader and is a highly competitive guy. He is exactly what Detroit needed because few people thought they had a chance to win.

He was named Finals MVP after beating LA’s lineup of 4 future Hall of Famers (Karl Malone/Gary Payton/Kobe Bryant/Shaquille O’Neal): how did that series end up changing his life? I think it was validation for many people outside of Colorado who did not think that he had those abilities. It was the epitome of team basketball and he was the leader.

On November 19, 2004 he scored 13 PTS in a 15-PT loss to Indiana: what are your memories of the “Malice at the Palace”? I watched it on TV and remember seeing guys go into the stands, but I do not recall seeing him partake in that ugly moment.

In 2006 as a team co-captain he led the league in assist-to-turnover ratio: what is the key to being a great PG? You need a selfless attitude, great court awareness, and terrific vision. The game is about angles and you need to see things both in front of you and all around you. He was an excellent passer and stronger than your prototypical PG, which made him a challenge to defend. He was too big for opposing PGs and too quick for opposing SGs. He has always had the PG mentality of running the show and making everyone better.

In Game 5 of the 2007 Eastern Conference Finals LeBron James scored 48 PTS including each of his team’s final 25 PTS in a 2-PT 2-OT road win by Cleveland after Chauncey’s shot at the buzzer rimmed out: was it just a situation where every shot LeBron took seemed to go in because he was “in the zone” (www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx4z_pCA_6k)? LeBron just took the game over physically: I could not believe what I was seeing. This was a playoff game but they had no answers for him. It was 1 of the 1st times I realized how great he was: I played 10 years in the NFL and still believe that LeBron could have played pro football.

In his 6 years with Detroit he made 6 straight Eastern Conference Finals: how was his team able to be so dominant for such a long stretch of time? Larry Brown was a brilliant coach and could impart his knowledge on his players and get them to buy in. He shared the recipe of being a winning team: pass the ball and play hard-nosed defense…but it also helped that they had a bunch of good players!

His 89.4 career FT% and 1830 3PM remain in the top-20 in NBA history: what was his secret for being such a great shooter? I think it is just confidence that every time the ball leaves your hand it is going in. He finally realized how good he was after a few years in the NBA due to his high basketball IQ, but he had solid fundamentals going back to high school.

His younger brother Rodney played PG for the University of Denver and his cousin LenDale White played RB in the NFL: who is the best athlete in the family? I coached LenDale in high school and Rodney was later head coach at Denver. LenDale was a terrific athlete as a 230-pound RB who had great feet and tremendous hands. Chauncey was a really good athlete and could have been a great strong safety. If we had a Superstars event for all of them it would have been great!

When people look back on his career, how do you think that he should be remembered the most? As 1 of the great players/leaders during his career. He has done things the right way and been 1st-class both on and off the court. I have the utmost respect for him and his accomplishments/character make him 1 of the best.

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Season preview: HoopsHD interviews Bellarmine SR G CJ Fleming

We are keeping our fingers crossed in the hope that we can return to a “normal” version of college basketball this fall: fans in the stands, announcers without masks, etc. Nobody knows exactly what is going to happen but we will try to restore some order with season previews featuring the best players/coaches in the country. We continue our coverage with Bellarmine SR G CJ Fleming. HoopsHD’s Jon Teitel got to chat with CJ about winning the 1st D-1 postseason game in school history last March and his expectations for this season.

You were born/raised in Ohio: what made you choose Bellarmine? My older brother Ryan played at Northern Kentucky and was in a tournament that Bellarmine was hosting. I came down here to watch him and the atmosphere was great: I told my dad that day that I wanted to come here.

You play for Coach Scott Davenport: what makes him such a good coach? He cares so much for us and wants to prepare us for our future down the road.

In 2018 you played in all 32 games and were named to the conference All-Freshman team: how were you able to come in and contribute right from the start? We had a really good team that year with some great seniors who took me under their wings and showed me the ropes until eventually they trusted me. It was just a great year with some great guys.

In 2019 you led your team with 33 STL and were #2 in the conference with 46.9 3P%: how do you balance your offense with your defense? That is just something we do as a team starting in summer workouts. We get individual instruction and do lifting every single day. Each team has a culture but it really is a family here and we do everything together.

Last year you made the leap to D-1: what is the biggest difference between D-2 and D-1? We have gotten this question so many times! The size/speed of the guys is the biggest difference. We also had to learn about opponents in a whole new league.

You started the year 3-5, then won 10 conference games in a row: how was your team able to turn things around in mid-January after getting swept at home by Lipscomb? We started out with games against 2 prestigious programs in Duke/Notre Dame, which helped to prepare us for the rest of the season. The Lipscomb sweep got us introduced to the league, and then we just took it 1 game at a time and focused on the little things.

In the 2021 CBI you beat Army before losing in the semifinals to eventual champion Pepperdine: what did you learn from that postseason run that will help you this year? It was absolutely amazing to win the 1st D-1 postseason game in school history. We struggled in the 1st half against Army but played much better in the 2nd half. That experience will benefit us in the long run.

Your brutal non-conference schedule includes games at Purdue/St. Mary’s/Gonzaga/UCLA/West Virginia: which of these games do you feel will present your biggest test? All of them will. Just to have 1 of those teams on our schedule is awesome for our university, and having all 5 will be incredible.

You and Ethan Claycomb were the only 2 seniors on the roster last year: what is the key to being a good leader? Experience does help: we are the old guys of the bunch and try to show the younger guys how we do things. I tell them what to expect and how the games will go.

What are your goals for this season, and what are your expectations for this season? We talk a lot about having a “destination”: it sounds corny but we just take it day by day and are not looking that far ahead.

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Happy Birthday!: HoopsHD interviews former Fairfield star Joe DeSantis

Geno Auriemma might be the current king of Connecticut college basketball, but Joe DeSantis has been doing great things in the Constitution State for many decades as well. As a player at Fairfield he was an Honorable Mention All-American in 1979, became the greatest FT shooter in school history, then was a 2nd round NBA draft pick. He spent most of the 1980s as an assistant at his alma mater, then spent more than a decade as head coach at Quinnipiac. He was elected to the New England Basketball Hall of Fame in 2004 and currently runs the DeSantis Basketball Academy. HoopsHD’s Jon Teitel got to chat with Joe about being a great FT shooter and a color commentator. Today is Joe’s 64th birthday so let us be the 1st to wish him a happy 1!

As an all-city guard at Tolentine High School you scored 37 PTS in a legendary 2-PT upset loss at Mt. St. Michael in the 1st round of the 1975 New York Catholic High School Athletic Association playoffs: where does that rank among the most exciting and/or devastating games of your life? I remember it like it was yesterday: it is more of a devastating loss than anything. I have memories of scoring a lot of PTS: we were the best team in the Catholic League that year before getting upset. It is a lot different now because teams travel all over the country: back then it was a big-time rivalry because you played against everyone else from your neighborhood.

In 1977 you shot 89.2 FT% (#5 in the nation) and you still hold the school record with 84.9 career FT%: what is your secret for FT shooting? I now have a basketball academy where I work with kids 1-on-1. I was fortunate to have good coaches/parents who taught me to listen to my educators: I had good form and was a good listener. There was no 3-PT line when I played: kids today shoot from behind the arc when they have no business doing so. I am a humble guy…but right now in my 60s I could probably go out and make 7 of 10!

You made the 1978 NIT before losing to Dayton (Mark Young scored 32 PTS): how big a deal was it at the time? There were only 30 or so teams who made the NCAA tourney back then so to make the NIT meant that you were 1 of the 50 best teams in the country. We had a good team and a terrific coach. Dayton had beaten Notre Dame in their final regular season game and were still juiced from that. We came out to warm up but the fans threw rolls of toilet paper all over the court so I knew that we did not have a chance. Mark and I walked onto campus at the same time and were roommates/best of friends. I do not even know if I was the best player on my own team, much less in school history!

In 1979 you were named an All-American: what did it mean to you to win such an outstanding honor? The bottom line is that I was offered a lot of scholarships but I chose the right school where I could come in and play right away as a freshman. The awards are just rewards for being in the right situation at the right time. I also think that I worked harder than most people and was fortunate to play with a great bunch of guys: you cannot do it on your own.

In the summer of 1979 you were drafted in the 2nd round by Washington but ended up playing professionally in Italy and the CBA: how close did you come to joining a team that had been to 2 straight NBA Finals, and how did you like playing in Italy? I was the last pick of the 2nd round. The Bullets had some issues with their PG position. I would take the Amtrak from NYC to DC every weekend to play in a summer league. The Bullets did not offer me guaranteed money and since I am of Italian descent I figured I would take some good money to play in Venice: free meals, no need for a car, etc. I did not have a whole lot going on so the chance to make some money right away and perhaps make a career in Italy was worth it. I thought that I might be able to play as an Italian citizen but it was much stricter back then. I had a great year but our team underachieved a bit. I went to the CBA but realized that my heart was not in it so I quit halfway through the season. My 4 years at Fairfield helped lay the foundation for the past 4 decades.

What are your memories of the 1986 NCAA tourney as an assistant coach at Fairfield, the 1st in school history (Anthony Welch scored 22 PTS/11-16 FG in a loss to Illinois)? I decided to become an assistant at my alma mater because I did not know what I wanted to do with my life: it was good to be at a familiar place and have a chance to teach some kids. We dominated the MAAC and ended up making the tourney. We had a 12PM game in Charlotte, which I thought was a big advantage for us because we were a very disciplined team. It was close in the 1st half before they blew us out in the 2nd half. It was a big accomplishment for the school to make the tourney and I knew that it would help me develop into a better coach.

In the 1987 MAAC tourney final you had a record of 14-15 and trailed by 18 PTS with 13 minutes left in regulation before AJ Wynder made a jumper at the end of regulation en route to a 3-PT OT win over Iona: where does that rank among the most clutch shots that you have ever seen? We were the only team to stay in the Meadowlands Hilton every night: it felt like a 2nd home for us. I remember the crowd was great as the “Red Sea” began to develop. We kept chopping at the lead because we were very good at late-game situations. We needed a 2 at the end of the regulation so we ran 2 screens for AJ and he made a jumper right in front of us. We had practiced that: once the game went into OT we thought that we would win. It was total euphoria when the fans rushed the court!

In the 1987 NCAA tourney Jeff Gromos had 21 PTS/11 REB in a loss to Indiana: could you tell that the Hoosiers were good enough to win it all? We got there a couple of days early and were walking through the streets hearing nothing but stuff about Coach Bobby Knight. Indiana had been upset by Cleveland State in the 1st round the previous year so I knew that Knight would not make it easy for us. We went into the Hoosier Dome and there was a huge roar that sounded like the emperor was coming out! I do not dwell on the loss: I remember getting there.

What are your memories of the 1993 NCAA tourney as an assistant at Pitt (Phil Dixon scored 22 PTS in a win by Utah)? I decided to quit coaching after my 1st son was born so I went to work for Converse but later got back into coaching. I remember my wife crying as we left the Tri-state area to drive to Duquesne, but I realized that part of coaching is having to move every so often. That game was at Vanderbilt, which was weird because the team benches are so far away from the court. Rick Majerus was a great coach and his team was very well prepared.

You currently run the DeSantis Basketball Academy and work as a color commentator for radio/TV broadcasts of Fairfield basketball: what makes your academy different from other academies, and how do you like being a color commentator? It allows me to stay in the game: the main stress I get is from watching my own kids play! I get an opportunity to teach it, watch it, and broadcast it. It is awesome because I do not have a boss and I get to pay a lot of attention to my family. While I do miss coaching, I feel that I got a little burned out after 25 years. I have people who look up to me to make them better both on and off the court, which is nice. The radio/TV work is hard but I am getting better at it. I see the game totally differently now and think that I might be a better coach now because of that. I am not sure if it is more important to make money or keep busy: probably a combination of both.

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Happy Birthday!: HoopsHD interviews former coach Les Robinson

It takes a special kind of coach who can get the job done for 5+ years at 3 different schools, which is exactly what Les Robinson did back in the day. He spent 11 years at The Citadel, 5 years at East Tennessee State, and then 6 years at NC State. He got his basketball education at NC State as a player/student assistant coach/graduate assistant coach under a pair of legends in Everett Case/Press Maravich. He was a 2-time SoCon COY at The Citadel, made back-to-back NCAA tourneys at East Tennessee State, then became 1 of a handful of 1st-year coaches in ACC history to win an NCAA tourney game. HoopsHD’s Jon Teitel got to chat with Coach Robinson about almost upsetting a #1 seed and seeing how the ACC has changed. Today is Coach Robinson’s 79th birthday so let us be the 1st to wish him a happy 1!

You went to college at NC State: how did you 1st get into coaching? I made the decision from an early age. I have a yearbook from 6th grade that my mother made me fill out even though I did not want to. I listed Perry Como as my favorite singer and under occupation I wrote down “basketball coach”. We lived near Marshall University and my dad ran a basketball tournament to help profit the local YMCA. I watched Coach Cam Henderson at Marshall, who brought the fast-break to college after seeing Clair Bee use it. I was enthralled watching the coach work with his players and I never dropped it. I studied the coaches in my school way back in 7th/8th grade. I did not understand why I had to study English and other classes: my dad explained that every coach has to have a diploma on his wall. Coach Press Maravich said that I would become the #2 assistant as a 21-year old the day that Coach Everett Case stepped down. I became the coach of the freshman team and was very nervous, but halfway through my 1st practice I realized that even though I did not know everything I knew a hell of a lot more than the freshmen!

You were a 2-time SoCon COY at The Citadel: what did it mean to you to receive such outstanding honors? It meant a lot because it is a very difficult place to coach. I learned a lot on the job as an assistant about the mistakes that some head coaches make at a military school. You can be great at Xs and Os but you have to know who to recruit. We signed 9 guys 1 year…and 6 of them were gone by the end of September! When I became head coach I might take the 3rd-best recruit because the top-2 might not fit in: it takes a special person to succeed here. We lost to NC State 1 year: Coach Norm Sloan asked me why I scheduled his team and I said that it was because it would help recruiting and we needed some guarantee games. He punched me in the chest and told me that it was important to schedule people you could beat, so I changed my scheduling after that. I actually had to drop 2 non-conference games so that we would be eligible to play in the NCAA tourney. Coach Bobby Knight taught me that 1 of the perks of coaching at a military school is that you can have as many managers as you wanted, so I bought a bunch of Street and Smith magazines and had the managers help me figure out who we could play that year.

You finished your tenure as the winningest coach in Citadel history: what made you such a good coach? I had the most winning seasons and was not looking for another job. I ran into Coach Sonny Smith 1 day, who had previously coached at East Tennessee State. Sonny was going to become the new coach at ETSU…but he got hot in the 1984 NCAA tourney thanks to 1 of his players named Charles Barkley and I ended up getting the job instead.

In the 1989 NCAA tourney as head coach at East Tennessee State, Greg Dennis had 20 PTS/15 REB in a 1-PT loss to #1-seed Oklahoma: how close did you come to becoming the 1st #16-seed to ever win a tourney game? I thought that it would happen someday because there is more parity today than ever before, even though the #1 seeds are very good. I later joined the Selection Committee and learned that the Committee had seeded us too low in 1989: we should have been a #14-seed. We helped get the rule started where you ship a low-seeded team away from home. If Keith “Mister” Jennings had not fouled out then we would have won: he was the glue that kept everyone together. He wanted to walk on at JMU but we were his only D-1 offer.

In the 1990 NCAA tourney Dennis Scott scored 36 PTS/14-22 FG in a win by Georgia Tech: where does Scott rank among the best scorers that you have ever seen? He ranks way up there: he is 1 of the best. I grew up with Jerry West, who was a pretty good scorer, and Rod Hundley was also 1 of my heroes.

In the 1991 NCAA tourney as head coach at NC State you had 6 players score in double-digits en route to a 114-85 win over Southern Miss: how did you create such an unstoppable offense in your very 1st year? I had 5 great players that year including the 2 best guards in America: we beat Duke, UConn, and North Carolina. Players make coaches great and a good motion offense does not turn the ball over a lot. I learned it from Coach Dean Smith and it really helped my career. I was hired with the primary purpose of improving academics/graduating players: we were the only 1 of the 27 athletic teams at NC State who required players to have a minimum GPA after their 1st semester. At The Citadel I could recruit kids through their high school coaches, but at NC State I had to go through AAU coaches, some of whom were literally drug dealers who ended up in jail.

In the 1993 season you were only able to dress 7 players for conference games due to injuries/suspensions: how did you deal with such an impossible situation? We had some scholarships taken away from us and also had a couple of injuries: I had to dress a manager just to hold a 5-on-5 practice! I had forgotten about that: it was pretty much rock-bottom. When I took over at ETSU I did not know that the school had self-reported some cheating the prior coach did so that they would not have to pay him, but the NCAA penalized the school because some of the players had received money. I was dealt some poor hands.

You served as athletic director at all 3 of the schools where you coached: what was the best part of being an administrator, and what was the worst part? I never had a desire to be an athletic director but I must have had some skills that helped me do it. The ETSU president called me up and asked me to be AD: I told him that I preferred to coach but the president said that I could do both. My assistant AD handled most of the day-to-day stuff: I just had to shake hands and raise money. When I became AD at NC State I told my friends that it was like becoming a grandfather: you still get to be around the kids but you do not have to change the dirty diapers!

You have been around the ACC for more than 50 years: what is your impression of how it has changed since the 1960s? Some of the old guys might turn over in their graves but that is just modern-day college athletics: TV and money. I still love watching the old rivals play each other but I worry about the student crowds slipping. When you play a team that is new to your conference and scattered far away from your campus and is not a “feature game”, you might not go watch it in person. In my day every team’s fans knew every single conference opponent and the atmosphere for big games helped players rise to the occasion. Just look at Kentucky: they have a sell-out crowd every single night.

When people look back on your career, how do you want to be remembered the most? Just as someone who treated his players properly and helped them grow into men who had good careers either on or off the court. I am so proud when I get letters from former players who went on to have a successful life: that is my legacy. Wins are important but you get into it because you enjoy working with young people: I hope that I had a profound influence on many of my players.

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Season preview: HoopsHD interviews Georgia SR C Jenna Staiti

We are keeping our fingers crossed in the hope that we can return to a “normal” version of college basketball this fall: fans in the stands, announcers without masks, etc. Nobody knows exactly what is going to happen but we will try to restore some order with season previews featuring the best players/coaches in the country. We continue our coverage with Georgia SR C Jenna Staiti. HoopsHD’s Jon Teitel got to chat with Jenna about being a great shot-blocker and her expectations for this season.

You did not start playing basketball seriously until you were in high school: how come? I was a swimmer at 1st: I played a little basketball during middle school and joined a travel team with some friends but was not super-serious about it. I eventually got a little tired of having to wake up early for swimming and realized that it was not fun anymore. I started getting looked at seriously for basketball around 8th grade even though I had not yet scratched the surface.

In 2016 you were named a WBCA High School All-American: what did it mean to you to receive such an outstanding honor, and which of your fellow honorees impressed you the most (Lauren Cox/Sabrina Ionescu/Nancy Mulkey/other)? Winning Miss Georgia Basketball was the coolest: my coach called me to his office and I thought that I was in trouble until he told me! It was the icing on the cake. It was cool to be in the same class as those girls: Destiny Slocum (now in the WNBA) is 1 of my good buddies.

You began your college career at Maryland: what made you decide to transfer, and what made you choose Georgia? I committed to Maryland as a high school sophomore: if I was talking to my 15-year old self now I would tell her that her priorities will change by the time she turned 18. I was homesick: my grandmother was sick and I was unable to be at home as much as I wanted to be. I got my release after the season was over, then Coach Joni Taylor called me: I have known her for awhile and we just picked up where we left off. My family/friends get to come to all of my games now so it is good to be back.

Coach Taylor was named SEC COY last season: what makes her such a great coach, and what is the most important thing that you have learned from her so far? She is everything that you need in a coach. I look at her 1st as a mentor: I can talk to her about anything even if it is not related to basketball. She is like a mom and believed in me when nobody else did: she saved me in a way and is just amazing. We play so hard for her: we want to win for her because she does so much for us. I was so happy when I heard that she was named COY: she deserved it so much.

Last year you led the SEC with 3.2 BPG: what is the secret to being a great shot-blocker? At 1st I could block shots because I was tall but have gotten even better over the years. I fouled out a lot when I was younger but have learned how to use my right hand against a lefty and make sure to not get called for fouls: coordination is important. The least I can do is to be there to help out down low because our guards play such great defense.

In the 2021 NCAA tourney you scored 18 PTS in a 7-PT loss to Oregon: what did you learn from that game that will help you this year? We have a lot of people coming back this year so that experience will help us all a lot. Everyone comes ready to play and wants to beat you in the postseason: it is win or you are done. I think that we will be better prepared this year.

You considered entering the WNBA draft a few months ago: why did you decide to return to college, and do you have any regrets? I do not have any regrets. I was thinking of going pro but due to COVID it turns out that I can play for another year and get my masters: it was an opportunity that I could not pass up. The only possible regret is for my body: it sounds weird to say but I am a sore 23-year old!

You graduated last spring with a degree in human development and family science and are now pursuing a master’s degree: what the heck is sport pedagogy, and how do you balance your work on the court with your work in the classroom? Sport pedagogy is about the principles involved in becoming a coach: it is based off of what you learn in PE class but I definitely want to be a college basketball coach. Being a grad student is so much easier than undergrad: I only go to classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays so I just need to manage my projects.

Your mother Sandi played volleyball at Providence, your father Jim played basketball at Presbyterian, and your grandfather played basketball at Loyola MD: who is the best athlete in the family? Me: hands down! I also have a brother who played basketball and a sister who played volleyball: it is very competitive in our family.

What are your goals for this season, and what are your expectations for this season? I want to win an SEC title, go to the Final 4, and then win an NCAA title. It stung a lot last year to get so close to a conference title (a 5-PT loss to South Carolina in the title game) but now we know what to do. Hosting the tourney at home would be great: I want a ring!

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The Hoops HD Report: September Session

Tonight Chad and the panel start off by looking at all of the conference realignment that is happening.  Texas and Oklahoma are jumping to the SEC, and the Big 12 is adding Cincinnati, BYU, UCF, and and Houston.  We talk about how the dominoes might fall for leagues like the American, and how that might impact other leagues as they try and replace members.  We also talk a little NIL and some of the deals that have been signed already, the number of players in the transfer portal, and some other news and notes.

And for all you radio lovers, below is an audio only version of the show…

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