The Olympians: HoopsHD interviews Mark Peterson about 2008 Olympic gold medalist Cappie Pondexter

The NBA Finals date back to 1947 (when they were known as the Basketball Association of America Finals) and the very 1st NCAA tourney was held in 1939. Olympic basketball competition is even older: it debuted as a demonstration event in 1904 and the men’s version became a medal sport in 1936, with the women finally getting their chance to go for the gold in 1976. The United States has dominated Olympic basketball competition from the start: the men have now won 17 gold medals in the 20 tournaments they have participated in during the past 88 years, while the women have won 10 gold medals in the 12 tournaments in which they have competed during the past 48 years. While we have to wait 4 years until the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles, HoopsHD’s Jon Teitel will fill the void by interviewing as many prior Olympic players/coaches as possible. We continue our coverage by chatting with fellow Rutgers star Mark Peterson about Cappie Pondexter being a great scorer and winning a gold medal.

Cappie was born in California/raised in Chicago and was named WBCA All-America Game MVP in 2001: what made her choose Rutgers? I think it was the connection she made with assistant coach Jolette Law and the chance to take her game to the next level under Hall of Fame coach C. Vivian Stringer.

What made Stringer such a great coach? She never stopped learning and never accepted where she was: she always looked for the next piece of knowledge that she could grasp. Even when she was at Cheyney State she would lean on Coach John Chaney’s ear and have her ladies practice with his men to absorb his knowledge of the game. She was always willing to listen to ideas that any of her assistants had. She genuinely cared about her players both on the court and off: she wanted them to become the best people that they could be, as that would make them even better players.

In 2003 she was named Big East ROY: how was she able to come in and contribute right from the start? She had to sit out a year but was still able to practice with the team, then she came in the next year and played right away.

In the 2005 Elite 8 she scored 25 PTS in a 10-PT loss to Tennessee, and in the 2006 Sweet 16 she scored 22 PTS in a 7-PT loss to Tennessee: what was it like to face Pat Summitt in March? That was like watching Bobby Fischer & Garry Kasparov play chess because they were both master tacticians. At that level it is about small things that will give 1 of them the edge. Pat seemed to have all the pieces that she needed, and every time Vivian faced her it seemed like we were missing 1 piece that we needed to get over the hump. We beat them a couple of times during the regular season but when we reached the NCAA tourney Tennessee just had the edge.

In 2006 her team went 16-0 in Big East play: did it reach a point where the fans just expected them to win every time that they stepped onto the court? The 2005 team was even more memorable. We started off non-conference play a little sluggish (losing 2 of 3 games to start December) but beat a trio of top-10 teams (#8 Tennessee/#4 Texas/#1 LSU) in a span of 8 days. That team got on a role and rolled through conference play with just 2 losses until getting beat by UConn in the Big East tourney title game.

She was the 1st player in history to be named to the All-Big East 1st-Team 4 times and in 2006 she was named conference POY/Women’s Basketball News Service national POY: what did it mean to her to receive such outstanding honors? Similar to Sue Wicks, she just wanted to play her best on the court. She appreciated when people acknowledged her hard work.

She graduated #2 on RU’s all-time career scoring list with 2211 PTS and her 42.6 3P% was #1 all-time: what was her secret for being a great scorer/shooter? She was relentless and worked on her shooting/ball-handling constantly. It reached a point where she was a very dangerous player all over the court: teams knew they had to contend with her on both offense/defense.

In the spring of 2006 she was drafted 2nd overall by Phoenix: did she see that as a validation of her college career, or the realization of a lifelong dream of reaching the WNBA, or other? Both, for sure. When she got to Rutgers she had a tattoo that Coach made her cover up. It was the WNBA logo, so she knew where she wanted to go and what she had to do to get there. Getting to play with Diana Taurasi allowed Phoenix to have 1 of the best backcourts in the league.

She played for Team USA at the 2008 Olympics: what did it mean to her to represent her country, and what did it mean to her to win a gold medal? That was just the next step. She never had the opportunity to win a title in college and every great player wants to contribute to a championship, which she did with Team USA.

She made the WNBA 15th/20th/25th Anniversary teams, won a pair of WNBA titles, and was named 2007 Finals MVP: where does she rank among the greatest players in Rutgers history? I would put her just behind Sue Wicks and just ahead of Regina Howard.

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Big Ten Media Day Recap and Response

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BIG TEN MEDIA DAY PRESEASON POLL:

  1. Purdue
  2. Indiana
  3. UCLA
  4. Illinois
  5. Michigan State
  6. Oregon
  7. Rutgers
  8. Ohio State
  9. Michigan
  10. Maryland
  11. Iowa
  12. Wisconsin (tied 12th)
  13. Nebraska (tied 12th)
  14. USC
  15. Washington
  16. Northwestern
  17. Penn State
  18. Minnesota

MEDIA DAY PRESEASON ALL-BIG TEN TEAM:

-Oumar Ballo – SR, C – Indiana
-Payton Sandfort – SR, F – Iowa
-Dawson Garcia – SR, F – Minnesota
-Brooks Barnhizer – SR, G – Northwestern
-Bruce Thornton – JR, G – Ohio State
-Jackson Shelstad – SO, G – Oregon
-Ace Baldwin, Jr. – SR, G – Penn State
-Braden Smith – JR, G – Purdue (Big Ten Preseason Player of the Year)
-Dylan Harper, FR, G – Rutgers
-Great Osobor – SR, F – Washington

COMMENTS FROM DAVID:

So, for the first time ever a player from Oregon and a player from Washington have made the Preseason All-B1G team!! Congrats to both of those players!!

In short, I do not think these bloated conferences are as good for the sport as leagues that are about half this size, play a double-round-robin, and consist of regional institutions. But, I also know we are way past that point now, and are perhaps never going back to it.

-Purdue was last year’s national runner-up, and despite losing Zach Edey, who was the most dominant player in the entire country, the expectations are once again high for the Boilermakers. Three starters return, including a very strong perimeter player in Braden Smith who can shoot and distribute the ball. He and Fletcher Loyer will make up a strong and experienced backcourt. It is the frontcourt where some of the questions seem to be. I like this Purdue team, and think they will be a top-25-caliber team all year, but I do not expect them to be quite as good as they have been the last two years, and do not think they will end up as the first place team this year despite the preseason prediction. But…who knows? They have outperformed expectations before.

-Indiana is getting a lot more love than I was expecting. Yes, four starters are back, and yes, I think they will be better, but I do not see them finishing as high as 2nd in the conference and contending for a protected seed. Let us not forget that this team did not even make the NIT a year ago. Transfer guard Myles Rice was a big part of Washington State’s success last year, and he will be a huge asset for the Hoosiers this year. They are balanced, they are experienced, and they will be good. I just do not think they are quite protected-seed-level good yet.

-UCLA, like Indiana, has four starters back. UCLA, like Indiana, should be much better this year after not playing in a postseason tournament a year ago. They also have six transfers coming in to join those four returning starters, and they should once again be a tough defensive team and can make some noise in this conference.

-Illinois had a nice run to the Elite Eight a year ago, but they are in a bit of a rebuild with just one starter returning and some contributing bench players also gone. But, they have two really-impressive-looking freshmen coming in, as well as some key players from the transfer portal, so the Illini should once again have a strong team. We are in an age where teams that turn their rosters over do not really drop off like they used to.

-Michigan State is coming off another NCAA Tournament appearance, but like a lot of other teams their roster has turned over. Jaden Akins is the only returning starter, but he will be joined by Frankie Fidler (a standout player at Omaha last year who is a very good shooter) as well as Szymon Zapala (a standout player at Longwood last year who will likely be the starting center). The Spartans may struggle more than what we usually see this year.

-Oregon is coming off a year where they made the Round of 32 despite dealing with injuries throughout the season. They have to replace their top-two scorers, but the other three starters are back as well as some guys who were able to contribute off the bench a year ago. I like this Ducks team and think they will once again be back inside the bubble this year.

-Rutgers was rather mediocre last year, and the good players that they did have seem to be gone. Having said that, Rutgers is adding the top-ranked freshman class in the conference, and has two guys in Dylan Harper/Ace Bailey who should be able to contribute right away. They are also adding some other really-good-looking transfers. I do not know if it is fair to call Rutgers a “sleeper” since so many people seem to be expecting them to be better, but I am expecting them to be A LOT better! This should be a fun team to watch.

-Ohio State won 22 games a year ago, but only made it as far as the NIT. Two starters are back, and Jake Diebler begins his first full year as head coach. They did play better down the stretch, but with so many new players it is hard to say how well the Buckeyes will do this year.

-Michigan was awful last year. Dusty May takes over as head coach, and he has his work cut out for him, but fortunately he has some key transfers who will be joining him. Michigan may not be a top-25 team this year, but they will likely be one of the more improved teams in the country.

-Maryland had a blah 16-17 season a year ago and did not show many signs of being that much better at the end of it than they were at the beginning. Three starters are back, and they appear to have some solid transfers coming in, so we should see some improvement from the Terps this year.

-Iowa was a modest 19-15 last year and a respectable (but not great) 10-10 in Big Ten play. They did show signs of improvement down the stretch, three key starters are back, and they have some solid transfers coming in as well. It would not shock me at all to see this team improve and land inside the bubble.

-Wisconsin is always a team I am big on, and always a team that I think is undervalued and can outperform their preseason expectations. And, this year, well…I kind of feel that way again! They made the NCAA Tournament a year ago, and while their roster is turning over they do have two starters back and are adding several players from the portal who appear to fit their system. Their track record for starting out unranked and then finishing in the rankings is actually rather staggering…and I think this year they will do it again!

-I am a little surprised that Nebraska is not receiving a little more love. They were in the NCAA Tournament a year ago and three starters are back. I do not know if they will be quite as good as they were a year ago, but I expect to see them finish a little higher in the standings than this.

-The Eric Musselman Era is underway at USC, and he will have to rebuild the roster of a team that struggled a year ago. No starters are back, but they did hit the transfer portal pretty hard and seem to have a fairly strong roster. It will be interesting to see if they can come together and win some games.

-Washington will also be rebuilding under new coach Danny Sprinkle. No starters return, and like a lot of schools they went into the transfer portal to try and land some key players. Great Osobor followed Sprinkle from Utah State, and appears to be the top player on the team. He will need to get some help from the rest of the roster if the Huskies are going to be competitive.

-Northwestern made it to the Second Round of the NCAA Tournament for the second year in a row last year, and with three starters back, and the most returning minutes of anyone in the Big 10, the Wildcats are picked to finish….uhhh, 16th?? This is one I do not agree with at all. I realize that Boo Buie is gone, but they have multiple solid players who are back, as well as some decent looking players who are transferring in, and to think they will not do better than this is a little ridiculous. I actually think they will be back in the NCAA Tournament again this year.

-I like Mike Rhoades as a coach, and I think he will do well at Penn State, and that they will continue to improve. I also think they will do better than 17th in the conference, but they still have some work to do before they are a regular NCAA Tournament-caliber team.

-We saw a huge improvement last season in Minnesota, but unfortunately a lot of the key players from that team left and they once again appear to be starting from scratch.

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Season preview: HoopsHD interviews Iowa JR F Hannah Stuelke

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We are still about 4 weeks away from the tip-off of a new college basketball season, which means that we have plenty of time to start preparing for the action ahead. We will do so via a series of season previews featuring the best players/coaches in the country. HoopsHD’s Jon Teitel continues our coverage with JR F Hannah Stuelke, who talked about wining games in March and her expectations for this season.

You were born/raised in Cedar Rapids, IA: what made you choose Iowa for college, and how exciting was it to receive a Key to the City last May?! It was a cool experience for me and my family. I think it shows how much the community gets behind myself and the Iowa program. Hawkeye fans are 1-of-1. Iowa always felt like home to me, and the coaching staff did a great job recruiting me.

As a freshman you were named conference 6th Player of the Year: what did it mean to you to receive such an outstanding honor? It was a huge honor. I know how hard I worked to get to this point, so it was nice to get recognized.

Last February you scored a career-high 47 PTS/17-20 FG in 32 minutes in a win over Penn State: was it just 1 of those scenarios where every shot you put up seemed to go in because you were “in the zone”? I was totally in the zone that day. It was one of those days where I knew that I was going to play well as soon as I woke up. The ball just kept going in the hoop and I credit my teammates for continuing to feed me the ball.

In the 2023 postseason you won the Big 10 tourney and made it all the way to the NCAA title game before losing to LSU: what is the key to winning games in March? I think the key to winning in March is believing in our core principles that the coaching staff instilled in us all the way back in the summer.

In the 2024 Big 10 tourney title game you scored 25 PTS/11-18 FG and played all 40 minutes in a win over Nebraska: how were you able to play your best when it mattered the most? That was such a fun game. I give credit to Nebraska for playing a heck of a game that day: it went all the way down to the wire. At that point in the season, you must empty the tank every night and that is what I did. It was awesome to win back-to-back Big Ten titles.

In the 2024 Elite 8 you scored 8 PTS in a 7-PT win over LSU: was it extra-special to get revenge after the Tigers beat you in the 2023 title game? The 2024 NCAA Tournament was as memorable as the 2023 NCAA Tournament. Making the Final Four and the National Championship in consecutive seasons was unbelievable. I am so lucky to have done it with some of my best friends for life. When we played LSU in 2024, it felt like even more people were watching than the year before. It is so neat to see the evolution of women’s basketball. I would say my favorite game from the past two years was the Final 4 game against UConn to advance to the 2024 Natty.

You have a new coach this year: how is Jan Jensen doing since getting hired to replace Lisa Bluder last May? Coach J is awesome. She was my lead recruiter and position coach before she got the head coaching position. We have always had a special connection, and I cannot wait to see how she does in her new role.

You lost 4 of your top-6 scorers from last year (Caitlin Clark/Kate Martin/Gabbie Marshall/Molly Davis): how will you try to replace all that offense/leadership, and is it even possible to replace the all-time leading scorer in D-1 history? We will need new people to step up for this team, and that includes me taking more of a leadership role and maybe taking a few more shots/game. Iowa basketball will look different and that is okay: we have a talented group that I believe in.

The Big 10 added several new schools this year: any thoughts on conference realignment? I am super-excited to welcome in the West Coast schools. It brings new opportunities to play new opponents and see some different pockets of the country.

What are your goals for the upcoming season, and what are your expectations for the upcoming season? My goal for this season to be the best leader I can be. My coaches have really emphasized that with me over the summer. This team has put in the work, and I am excited to begin a new chapter of Iowa women’s basketball.

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Season preview: HoopsHD interviews Vanderbilt SR F Sacha Washington

CLICK HERE For All of Hoops HD’s Continued and Extensive Preseason Content

We are still about 4 weeks away from the tip-off of a new college basketball season, which means that we have plenty of time to start preparing for the action ahead. We will do so via a series of season previews featuring the best players/coaches in the country. HoopsHD’s Jon Teitel continues our coverage with Vanderbilt SR F Sacha Washington, who talked about her summer internship and her expectations for this season.

You were born/raised in Georgia: what made you choose Vanderbilt? I wanted a good education at a place where I could grow and be a part of something. I wanted to help contribute to a program with people who could help me reach my goals. I did not want to be that far from home, and this is the place that has everything I was looking for.

You play for Coach Shea Ralph: what makes her such a good coach, and what is the most important thing that you have learned from her so far? She is always honest with you: she will say when you need to step it up without sugar-coating anything, but she is still behind us every single day. It is not just about basketball: you must be a good teammate but also do other things and give all you have in every aspect of life.

You started 35 games as a freshman and led the team with 230 REB: how were you able to come in and contribute right from the start? I knew that I had a job to do, and people were counting on me, so it did not matter how old I was. I had something to prove to my teammates/coaches/myself.

Last December you scored a career-high 33 PTS and had a career-high 8 STL in 35 minutes in an 8-PT win over Louisiana Tech: where does that rank among the best all-around games of your career? I would put it among my good ones but not my great ones. It is not about how many points you score but rather how well your team is playing together.

Last January you scored 18 PTS in a loss to South Carolina: where does that undefeated national champion Gamecock team rank among the greatest that you have ever seen? They were a great team but I feel like we came in and competed. We are not intimidated but rather excited to play teams like that because we want to face the best. In the SEC it is a battle every night.

In the 2024 1st 4 you had 16 PTS/15 REB in a win over Columbia: how were you able to play your best when it mattered the most? We knew that we could take advantage of them on the boards and knew what was at stake, so our preparation helped the most.

You made the 2022 SEC 1st-Year Academic Honor Roll and 2024 All-SEC Winter Academic Team: how do you balance your work on the court with your work in the classroom? Just by finding a balance. I am a student-athlete so after a practice/game I still have obligations off the court.

You spent part of last summer interning with the Nashville Superspeedway as part of its communications team: how did you like it? It was very fun/different. I wanted to try something new and I learned a lot: it was a great experience.

The SEC added Oklahoma/Texas last summer: any thoughts on conference realignment? I am excited! Our league is growing and has more competition, so I am excited to play the new teams.

What are your goals for the upcoming season, and what are your expectations for the upcoming season? My biggest goal is for us to go farther in the NCAA tourney. I do not have many other things I am worried about so I will do whatever I can to get that done. I want to finish out this year with a “big bang” and make my last year my best year while having fun.

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Season preview: HoopsHD interviews Michigan assistant coach Justin Joyner

CLICK HERE For All of Hoops HD’s Continued and Extensive Preseason Content

We are still about 4 weeks away from the tip-off of a new college basketball season, which means that we have plenty of time to start preparing for the action ahead. We will do so via a series of season previews featuring the best players/coaches in the country. HoopsHD’s Jon Teitel continues our coverage with Michigan assistant coach Justin Joyner, who talked about his new job and his expectations for this season.

You were a 3-time captain at UCSB: what is the key to being a good leader? Consistency in general: you need to always keep the team in mind and be about the right stuff. The team comes before everything, which we have here at Michigan with Coach Dusty May.

You won back-to-back Big West tourney titles in 2010/2011: what is the key to winning games in March? The easy answer is playing your best basketball…but there are so many highs/lows that you need to keep everyone working toward a common goal and keep getting better every day.

You graduated with 357 AST (#8 all-time) and 134 STL (#2 all-time): what is the secret to being a good PG? In large part it was out of necessity if I wanted to get on the court. I was coached at a high level, so I had a good feel about how to guard opponents and what risks to take. You also need very good teammates who can score and you must be selfless, which was a strong suit for me.

You spent the past 7 years working for Randy Bennett at St. Mary’s: what makes him such a great coach, and what was the most important thing that you ever learned from him? It goes back to consistency. He lives this profession/mission of letting young men become the best version of themselves. He is great every day and expects greatness from his entire program. I learned that the beauty is in the margins: you need skill/athleticism but the separators like work ethic/attitude/toughness require zero talent. It must be every guy because 1 bad apple can spoil it: you cannot waste any days.

Gonzaga has owned the WCC for most of this millennium but last year you won both the regular season and conference tourney titles: how do you explain the rivalry to someone who has never seen it in person? It is extremely electric and there is a ton of respect for both programs: Coach Mark Few and Coach Bennett are on the Mount Rushmore for coaches out west. They are complete opposites in terms of styles of play with different environments but they both want to 1-up each other. The bar was set externally with Gonzaga, and we did not have to talk about it: if you want to win titles you have to dethrone the Bulldogs. They are probably the most consistent/elite program in the country so we knew that if we could win the league then we could play at the highest level. I could not feel better about how we ended the conference season because I had a small part in leaving the place better than I found it.

Last April you were hired as an assistant to Dusty May at Michigan: why did you take the job, and how is it going so far? I worked for 1 of the best coaches/leaders in the country. You want to continue to evolve/get better and this place speaks for itself as an athletic department/basketball program. Dusty is about everything I believe in: I see him as a young coach who is ahead of the curve. St. Mary’s was more focused on defense/pace of play, so it is enticing to learn a new tempo here. The challenge/opportunity was something that I could just not pass up and it has gone so well so far. We have great human beings in our locker room/offices and that is the only way that we want to win. We are excited to build this program into the national contender that it should be.

Your team lost 6 of its top-8 scorers from last year (Dug McDaniel/Terrance Williams/Olivier Nkamhoua/Tarris Reed Jr./Tray Jackson/Jaelin Llewellyn): how will you try to replace all that offense/leadership? In college basketball you need to be able to adapt to those kinds of things, and the portal allows you to rebuild quickly. If you look at our roster, we have a center who was in the Final 4 in 2023 (Vladislav Goldin) and a guard who is ready to make a huge jump (Roddy Gayle Jr.). Sam Walters played in the Final 4 last April and Tre Donaldson played for an NCAA tourney team during each of the past 2 years. Nimari Burnett/Will Tschetter are also coming back so we have really good players with all guns pointed in the same direction.

The Big 10 added several new teams last summer: any thoughts on conference realignment? It is crazy but you need to adapt as it comes. There will be a West Coast flavor to it but it will be a physical/tough brand of basketball. We will play our fun/attractive style of ball.

Your wife Tracy is the head coach of the women’s soccer team at UC-Davis: who is the best coach in the family? She was Big West COY last year so I am obligated to say that she is awesome! She had made me a better leader/coach and is special in that regard: she is doing a great job with her young women because she is elite at her profession.

What are your goals for the upcoming season, and what are your expectations for the upcoming season? My goal is for us to be consistent in the product we put out on the floor. That is what wins game and what is important. We will be extremely competitive, and we want to play for championships. The bar is high…and we hope to smash it down!

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The Olympians: HoopsHD interviews Ace Custis about 1988 Olympic bronze medalist Bimbo Coles

The NBA Finals date back to 1947 (when they were known as the Basketball Association of America Finals) and the very 1st NCAA tourney was held in 1939. Olympic basketball competition is even older: it debuted as a demonstration event in 1904 and the men’s version became a medal sport in 1936, with the women finally getting their chance to go for the gold in 1976. The United States has dominated Olympic basketball competition from the start: the men have now won 17 gold medals in the 20 tournaments they have participated in during the past 88 years, while the women have won 10 gold medals in the 12 tournaments in which they have competed during the past 48 years. While we have to wait 4 years until the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles, HoopsHD’s Jon Teitel will fill the void by interviewing as many prior Olympic players/coaches as possible. We continue our coverage by chatting with fellow Virginia Tech star Ace Custis about 1988 Olympic bronze medalist Bimbo Coles being a great scorer and winning a bronze medal.

Vernell Eufaye Coles was given a nickname by his cousin, who really enjoyed the country song “Bimbo” by Faron Young (www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rpy9qMY7Rc): did everyone really call him that? Everyone calls him Bimbo: a lot of people do not even know his real name!

In addition to basketball he was a 2-time all-state football player at Greenbrier East High School and was selected by the Phillies in the 1986 MLB Draft and by the Angels in the 1990 MLB Draft: which sport was he best at, and which sport did he enjoy the most? I only know him for basketball but he was a great athlete so I think that he could play any sport.

What made him choose Virginia Tech? Being from West Virginia it must have been a hard decision because there is a big rivalry with Virginia Tech…but I am sure that it became easier after the staff recruited him.

He played for Team USA at the 1988 Olympics: what did it mean to him to represent his country, and do you think that NBA players would have ever been allowed to participate if they had not won a bronze medal that summer? What an honor it must have been to wear USA on your chest as a college athlete. When I watched the Olympics last summer I could see the pride on everyone’s faces. When you see the elite athletes today take time out of their schedule to do it, it must have been an even greater honor to make it as a college kid. I do not think college athletes could handle the amazing global talent that we see today in other countries.

He led the conference in scoring for 3 straight years and graduated as the all-time leading scorer in Metro Conference history with 2465 PTS: what was his secret for being a great scorer? When you think about putting the ball in the basket from any angle at any range: that is Bimbo. He was an elite scorer and did it at an exceptional rate.

He also led the conference with 5.9 APG in 1988: how did he balance his scoring with his passing? As a youngster I looked at the record book and noticed that he was high on the career lists in both PPG/APG. He could score but also keep his teammates involved as well.

He was selected by Sacramento in the 1990 NBA Draft and immediately traded to Miami: how did he feel about getting drafted, and how did he feel about getting traded? I am sure that he did not like the idea of being traded so quickly…but you cannot go wrong living in Miami! It is such an honor to hear your name called so I am sure he put that trade on the backburner and just got ready for his rookie year.

He was inducted into the Virginia Tech Sports Hall of Fame in 2000 and the Virginia Sports Hall of Fame in 2017: what did it mean to him to receive such outstanding honors? All his accolades were well-deserved. He was a tremendous athlete and an even better person.

The Virginia Tech athletic department later appointed him to be a Director of Student-Athlete Support and Community Engagement: how did he like mentoring student-athletes at his alma mater? He was a great spokesman for Virginia Tech athletics and embraced being a role model.

When people look back on his career, how do you think that he should be remembered the most? As a fierce competitor who brought it every single night. You always knew what you would get from him, and his legacy will live on forever.

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